2007 PB Kiteboarding Rise Kite Bridle Mod (Mod #1)
Posted: 14 August 2007 11:06 AM   [ Ignore ]
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This just in from PB kIteboarding in Toronto:

The Picts should say it all… Let us know how it works for you… Make sure larks heads are nice and tight!

This non destructive mod can provide you with the basis for line lenght for cutting or creating a new low drag line… like the other bridals.

The picts should cover it… Before… After….

I didn’t cut mine yet since I want to try some others mod with the pulley… Even though this works great!

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Posted: 14 August 2007 11:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Could someone explain this?

“This non destructive mod can provide you with the basis for line lenght for cutting or creating a new low drag line… like the other bridals. “

Also, as I posted on the other topic, (mostly addressed to JohnZ):

Does this mean that this:

“Control: Power Control Bridle System
The 2007 Rise features our Power Control Bridle System. Maintain a constant back line tension no matter what your trim setting is for maximum control of your kite in any wind condition! Jump and fly your kite powered or depowered with confidence like never before!”

Really didn’t work and is no longer a feature of the kite since the mod takes the pulley (and consequent connection between front and back lines) out of the control system?

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Posted: 14 August 2007 01:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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OK looks great but one question on the front bridal/lines I notes that the lines on the bar in the after photo are set on the above knot as the one on the before is set on the lower knot any reason for this, I’m doing the mod as we speak just need wind was a crappy summer in NB suppose to have wind in PEI on the weekend.

Jason

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Kiting is great can’t wait to retire so I can do it full time.  Bring on the wind.

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Posted: 14 August 2007 07:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Uhmm, how about NO depower?

Here’s my post from my sessions log on the Crew site -

Could be my own abilities (or lack thereof) but I really don’t like the “no pulley” mod. Here’s why:
1.  kite is very twitchy, maybe this is just improved turning speed, but it’s almost too fast.
2.  complete tip collapse (inwards) when sheeting in on the bar.
3.  pronounced stall in the middle of the turn, which would lead to the kite sinking into the wind window and then powering up MASSIVELY for basically uncontrollable power.
4.  none or limited depower on pushing the bar out… bar out really had no effect.

After pulling some depower, the kite was more manageable, but I still didn’t like the overall feel.  I like it with the pulley back in the system better.

I also didn’t think there was that much less bar pressure.

I also didn’t think the kite flew as far forward in the window.

That’s about it I guess..

I put the bridle back to the factory standard settings..

BTW, this may also be “weight” related - maybe this is because I am a big guy (225 lbs) flying a relatively small kite (12M).. I don’t know and will leave that to the experts..

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Posted: 14 August 2007 08:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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OK I’m a little confused by Joeag last post, I’ve not tried the 12m Rise with the new mod yet I’ve set it up but have to wait for the wind, until I try the kite with the new mod can’t comment but Joeag post cause some concern for me as I’m 250lbs and would be taking the kite in considerable amount of wind, I don’t know I love the rise for the low end and the speed but the problems were the wingtips pre mod, and after attaching the extentions the tips still collapse, was there any clydedales riding the kites in Nitnat, I’m getting the impression that the Rise is not made to be ridden by bigger people because I’m heavy and I swing the kite pretty hard through the window.  Never had the problem with the 12M One and no bar pressure problem with the one also, I will give it a shot with the new Mod (PBK Kiteboarding one) and will see how it works, 12m one has less lower end but was always rock solid for me, time will tell.

Jason

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Posted: 14 August 2007 11:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Jason - I am looking forward to your opinion after you try the above mod!

Please report back, and if your test works out better than mine, I will go out and try it again..

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Posted: 14 August 2007 11:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Sorry “Guest” is me, Joeag- forgot I wasn’t logged on..

BTW, I have been thinking about this a bit more and I feel that the above mod pretty drastically limits the amount you can decrease (?) the AOA as the kite fly’s through the air by letting the bar out..

I am no kite designer, but that’s how it felt.

I think with this mod, you end up having more of the kite into the wind (which means higher AOA) and thus you end up with more power and the kite flys “deeper” in the wind window. 

That would also explain why the kite flew better when I pulled in about 6 inches of depower line in the cam cleat.  That depower adjustment flattened the kite relative to the wind and made it fly further forward in the window and also more predictably.

I have never had to pull depower on the kite before and in much stronger wind than today with the mod in, so that’s an interesting side effect of the mod as well.

I think I would rather depower the kite by pushing the bar out than by pulling in on the depower line, because then you can play with the power as you ride, getting the kite in the sweet spot and then using the bar stopper to help with the bar pressure.

I also think that the “elbow” of the kite is not as well supported by the modded bridle and that causes the wing tip to collapse inwards when you really pressure the kite in a turn, etc. 

Alternatively, maybe with the rear lines connected directly to the wingtips you just have a lot more leverage on the tips and so you can distort them much easier (probably also why the kite turns faster).

Looking forward to hearing back from OR and other testers on these observations.  Seems like the bridle is still not optimal yet…

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Posted: 15 August 2007 02:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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it needs to have a pulley on the main bridle with the main pigtail attatched to it like on an ion, hypertype etc. i think. then the whole canopy can pivot with the bar out but as it is now it looks likeyoure just distorting the canopy as opposed to tilting it.

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Posted: 15 August 2007 03:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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We have been sitting in the middle of a huge high pressure situation here so have not had a chance to fly this mod yet. However, I spoke with Paul about it for quite some time yesterday and as such felt comfortable putting this mod up on the tech info forum.

Note that this mod will slightly reduce the total depower of the kite but will not affect the overall power in the kite. Further, it will drastically reduce the bar pressure.

John Z - I’ll post more as we get on the water with it!

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Posted: 15 August 2007 05:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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O.K. went out tonight with the 12 Rise when I first got there the wind was 25mph but when I launched it had dropped a lot but I left it in the air at grabbed by door 159 x 42 at first I would dive the kite and would try to have it come back up but it would drift directly down wind and then straight up, I was a little concerned at first, then I started to play with the depower strap and pulled in the line a bit so the kite would fly a little faster and would not stall as much and when doing a big power stroke I would let out the bar for the up stroke the kite would fly to the edge of the window with a lot of speed and then up I could sheet the bar in to slow it down if necessary, I was getting the hang of it and was getting a few runs in losing a little ground and would walk a bit and go again.  At aroun 19:15 the wind picked up to about 15knots I’m gessing it was steady and not really strong for my size, I had about 3 to 4 ” of depower pulled on the kite, and was able to keep my ground and head up wind, the kite worked great, I was really driving the kite across the wind window doing snap turns and down loops at no time did the wing tips collapes on me, the old set up it did all the time.  OK the best part of the mod is the non existent bar presure compared to the way it was before I love it.  All in all I’m pleased two of my biggest concerns have been addressed, the bar pressure and the wing tip collapes,  I have a couple of big gust of wind and I was still able to depower by pushing bar out, I’m thinking a combination of doing that edging hard should compensate I canot compare this kite to the one as that kite is a gust absorber.  I’m looking forward to using the kite in the 25 to 35mps and really torque it hard and see what happens, here are some of the changes I felt.

1) Bar pressure greatly reduced I don’t even notice anymore
2) Wing tips no longer collapes and I tried hard to make them collapes.
3) Kite really flies like a flysurfer kite very dependant on trim
4) The kite loves to fly at the edge of the window, hit a lull and let the bar out instant power (different for me)
5) The wind was light I did not notice any difference in the depower range, I’ll post more when I head out in stronger winds.  ALso I have no problem using cleat on the fly.
6) Even when the kite was at the lowest end for me I had to pull about 3 to 4” of depower to have the kite fly at its optimum.
7) During the powerstroke you have to sheet the bar out on the upswing to create speed and the kite climbs super fast and generates good power doing so.
8) Kite is super fast the fastest kite I’ve own, blows the 12m One away and 12m bronco was not even close.

That’s all I can think of now, I’m pleasently pleased with the mod and I’m going to keep it that way for now, when I first took the kite today I was already thinking wath replacement kite I was going to get, I’m glad that I don’t have to now, I think this kite is going to rock for me in the 20mph + winds.

Thanks PBK and John Z for the mod is sorted my problems out.

Jason

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Posted: 16 August 2007 08:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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I posted this in the general section of the forum but thought it might be useful here as well
I made the mod this afternoon and went out on the 12m rise at about 7pm for one hour. Wind was about 12 to 18. I used the Zen 135 and weigh 170#. Check the webcam archive for Gordon’s beach for Wednesday at 7:35pm on bigwavedave.ca to see the wind/water conditions.
My impressions:
Wicked fast in the turns, the first backroll attempt ended with a kite loop and 720 (well almost!). As fast or faster than my Diablo 12m. More like an 8m.
More loft and hangtime as it travels to the zenith faster as you send it.
Note to self; easy on the “send it”
The rise is a powerful kite and the mod seemed to make it even more so.
Once I got the depower and bar position right it felt very good. Definitely less bar pressure, very comfy.
The kite seems to climb up faster from near the water to say 60 degrees in light winds than before.
It also felt like it was going upwind even better.
I didn’t have any problems with the back lines being too slack for steering input.
The wingtips didn’t distort at all in the turns, the kite just turned smooth and fast.
I placed the stopper far away from me so that there would be plenty of depower available.

My suggestion would be for anyone who makes the mod to try it in lighter winds first. To get a feel for the change as it is a huge one.
Take extra care on your first launch and in getting to the water as you now have a very, very fast kite in your hands.
I think that the back lines end up about 2 inches shorter with this mod so pull on a bit of extra depower the first time (shorten the front lines) to compensate.

I don’t know if I will try it right away on the Rise 8m which is already fast. We will see.

Martin

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Posted: 16 August 2007 09:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Seems like the constant for all of us is the fact that you have to pull a couple inches of depower to make this work.

Seems like the back lines are too short and the kite stalls if you don’t, I had the same “stalling into the middle of the wind window problem” as described above..

I am going to try and shorten the front lines a bit next time I try this mod by using the knot closer to the kite on each front line..

Actually now that I look closely at the pictures above, it looks like PB is doing exactly that, he has the front lines larksheaded above the two knots, I hadn’t noticed that before, that is probably enough to shorten the front lines to where you don’t have to pull depower to make the kite fly right.. I just attached mine below the “arrow” on the flag sewn into the bridle.

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Posted: 19 August 2007 01:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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hello
can you say to me if it is possible to make same the modification on the ONE 2007
thank you for your reponce

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Posted: 20 August 2007 07:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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it doesnt work, i tried it and it didnt steer at all :?


i agree, the rise is even better with the direct backlines… i only flew it in about 20 so didnt experience any stalling issues..im interested to see how it handles the light winds i landboard in sometimes. it was a bit stally on the original setup i thought… would you say it now worse?

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Posted: 28 August 2007 09:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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With the direct back lines you can move the rear attachment point forward (towards the school setting) and still maintain turning speed while decreasing the back stall tendency….at least that was my experience on the 16 Rise.

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Posted: 30 August 2007 08:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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i just had my modded 10 out in about 5-8 knots and experienced no increase in stalliness compared to the stock setting. the bar pressure is non existent in about 15kts….much better than before where i had to come in after 10 mins due to my wrists and forearms aching. the turning is a tiny bit faster… but the imrovement is the way it turns.. i felt it now turns more ‘whippy’ like a C kite and it also loops tighter and faster. all in all i reckon its MUCH better on the direct steering and i had it in 20 and needed no more trim that i would on stock setup, so the depower isnt drastically reduced either. my advice to rise flyers is to DO IT! :D

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