Advise (for trainer kite?)
Posted: 26 May 2012 09:06 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Crew,

Today I had my second teaching event with my ‘12 Razor 5m.—- This is not the reason I bought the kite, it is my high wind kite for 35+ at least.. (i’m not even used to my 7.. there is simply no wind when I’m off.. )—-
So I picked up the plan to use the 5m for teaching the kids.. Made one bar with 17 lines to make it safer (kite will be faster at the edge), changed the CL to a very short one so the small arms of the kids can depower the kite.
Depowering the kite and adjusting the power with the strap works now for them.

So back to today:
Gusty wind; 12 to 20 kts.
My son is 130cm, 24kg, 7yr. (my daughter is older but not there today)

We had enough wind to go together with the 10m on the Skimboard (and we had a lot of fun doing that!!) I’m 71 kg so together 95kg..
So today there was enough wind for flying the kite but there were some “issues”.
The kite (5m) would not relaunch normally, the 10 does it very easy, just pull one side and the kite goes to the edge and relaunch. The 5 doesn’t (in the same wind) Will the 5 do it in higher winds?

I even changed the front settings to more power but the the kite would almost not fly at all, i did not understand. So changed it back fast..

It is not an issue about the line lengths all is ok, had to depower a bit on the strap otherwise it would backstall a bit. I trimmed the kite so it would fly nice unhooked and then a bit more power (with the strap so it flies nicely with sheeting in and out)
My son could nicely fly it but due to the gusty wind it just hindenburged when the wind suddely dropped a bit.. And that is not a really problem… the relaunch is..
I think he can nicely fly the kite when it is steady 15kts but it just won’t relaunch..

I’m thinking of trying my 7 for teaching around 12-15 kts but I’m doubting.. (my son was almost getting lofted on the 5 and could not hold ground with the kite on the water at 6) should I buy a very easy trainer tube kite which my kids can use in 10-15kts which will relaunch very easy? and if so which kite must that be?

I’ve looked at the trainerkite (Viron I thought)from Flysurfer but I’ve been told that it need some bar throw.. which the kids don’t have due to shorter arms..

So crew any suggestions to get the kids going?

Thx,
Arjan

Ps. John did you decide to make a Mako Mini with extra inserts for very small stances? (hopefully yes, and also on the other boards..)

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Posted: 27 May 2012 07:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Try the OR 2m trainer. I use it as a first kite with all my client . It has taken loads of pounding and is still good.
I have not used a 5m yet but the 4 m was not the easiest to relaunch.
I guess the reason is the small kites are built to the same standards as the big ones and are a little heavy ( except the 2m)
There is also the fact that the trailing edge is quit near the water compared to say an 8M and the nearer the water the less wind.

The way to relaunch is the same as with an old “c” kite Pull the front lines , release to get the kite on it’s back then it will drift round.
Once the small kite are in their wind range for kitesurfing they work fine in fact stopping them bouncing around and relauncing is more of an issue

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Posted: 27 May 2012 10:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Thx sunrise,
I know what you mean, they launch very easy in the wind range they are for.
I could relaunch it at the mentioned old way but that was also difficult. Not for student kids..
I’m looking for something that they can use in 12-20max for kitesurfing and that relaunches.. Don’t know if they can handle a 7 or an 8 rise right now… Later those kites will be fine but for now.. I think not.
What kites and what size do you use for kitesurfing and light weights kids?

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Posted: 27 May 2012 07:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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I don’t do many kids as the parent tend to fall into 2 categories
1 the worriers, who kids start winging as soon as they fall over and run to mummy
2 The shirker, who expect me to entertain the kids all day whilst they do something interesting.
Either way not fun for me.
BTW
6m is the smallest I go for the water. I find you have to use a really light kite below 6m for them to fly well with light people in low wind strengths. I have used Best in the past but they are of limited use for the rest of my client as they can’t stand the pounding . The best I had was a Naish ar3.5 but that is years ago.
If you like I could ship you my 5m Cypher to try. It would be interesting how it compares with the Razor in low wind / low weight conditions

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Posted: 27 May 2012 09:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Nice gesture Sunrise! Maybe I use your offer.

Also I am leaning towards the 2m rise trainer..
Looks like I want things to quick.. Today we did some waterskiing and he rode for the first time but with some fear on his face.. He didn’t want to try wake boarding but enjoyed kneeboarding on the kiteskimboard.. Looks like I want it to fast.. I think because I wished I could ride on that age.. I wished I was born with a board under my feet.. wink

Is the 2m really working like a 4 liner? And able to fly around 12 kts? (and relaunches at that wind speeds?)
Thx!
Arjan

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Posted: 28 May 2012 05:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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The 2m comes with bar and line .
The lines are thinner and there is no need for a depower cleat as movement on the bar is plenty to depower such a small kite. If I was using it for riding I would use you normal bar and lines.
Relaunch is no issue but be aware such a small kite bounces around and can easily pop through its lines especially if the are slack when the kite is on the water. It still wont relaunch as well as a bigger kite but at 12 kts I see no problem.
The 2m on thin lines flies on a knats fart

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Posted: 28 May 2012 02:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Thx!
Barry from stormchaser will send me one.
Hopefully it arrives for next weekend so we can give it a try.
Will post the experience!

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Posted: 29 May 2012 05:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Arjen, I will bring up the option of an even narrower stance for the 130 with the next RnD meeting! Glad to hear your son is progressing well, sorry to see that he was a bit frustrated with the 5m Razor. That kite is not designed to be a light wind kite used for teaching a light little fella. It’s a kite designed - and built - to be flown in high winds by a full sized man.

We will be introducing a new line of kites in July aimed at the introductory market. There will be key sizes of kite priced as new entry level kites and there will be smaller (3 & 5m) sizes built to be used in lighter winds for body dragging and introductory lessons for just this purpose.

John

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Posted: 29 May 2012 06:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Meanwhile if you can find a used 6rise they work great in light air. ( I’ve only used the first gen. with the center strut )

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Big Wave Dave your one stop weather site for S. Van. Island…

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Posted: 30 May 2012 08:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Thx John! Great news!
I’ll be following it on foot!
Beside the smaller stance on the 130 I would like to see a mini JT ... wink yeah you know you give them your finger and they grab the hand (Dutch saying)
I also suggest a ultra short CL for the QR, I have made one myself and it is really an improvement for the kids, full bar throw and they are able to reach the depower strap.
So a minimal kids setup is very easy to get for OR, smaller stance on the 130 and ultra short CL. Now that a with the new kites can be very interesting..

JL; I just sold my 6 rise.. It was the 2009.

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Posted: 30 May 2012 05:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Ha, we say “don’t bite the hand that feeds you” - similar!

I’ll pass this all on to the guys in RnD. Assuming that part of the CL head won’t change over time it would not be difficult to have us bring in some smaller ones but I want to be sure we don’t end up with a bag of useless loop heads if the CL is to change over time.

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