which kite and size?

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Joined 2012-02-16

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Hello all.  first post.  I’ve come here to ask about which size and model I should get.  I’ve narrowed it down to the razor or rise.  I live in Washington where on a good day its 17-18 mph.  I will however be taking this kite down to san diego where it can get in the 20-25 mph range.  I doubt I’ll see 30 mph anytime soon.  I currently have an HQ neo 2 8m and am completely unimpressed with it.  It pulls…but thats about it.  No pop in the 15 mph wind range.  I plan on primarily using this kite for water, but I will use it for snow as well.  I’m not super comfortable with wake style riding in snow, but i do however like the lofty jumps.  (unable to do with the neo)  So I bounced around a few other forums and I’ve been persuaded to go with an LEI.  I can get SCREAMING deals on OR kites, but I don’t have a way to demo it. 

I weigh 180 lbs and I’m really athletic.  I’m good at flying kites, I jump out of airplanes and I’m good at all board sports I’ve gotten into.  I just have not been able to really push myself due to the fact that I messed up and got a small foil kite therefore I’m unsure if I’ll even like wakestyle.  However big air and long lofty grabs, maybe a few loops impresses me especially for snowkiting.  I also learn pretty quick.

I’m thinking about picking up a 12m. rise and here are my reasons.

I’ve heard its lofty and has a decent wind range.  I can’t find any specs online about the wind range of a 12m rise, so I’m saying 12m for the 13-15 mph wind range. I don’t plan on going out and draining my adrenaline in 13mph, but i’d still like to be able to practice at a local field, maybe even throw on a landboard.

I have heard of people flying a 10m razor in 12-14 mph, but I’m assuming they are pretty experienced.  Can anybody give me any guidance on this?  I’m pretty open to all suggestions. 

Thanks!


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Total Posts: 285

Joined 2007-10-30

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I think you would be happy with a 12.

A few years down the line when you have all the light wind tech down you might go smaller, but to get the most fun at your weight throught the first couple seasons a 12 is a fantastic kite.  Was always my most used size up until recent years when I started into surfboards and whatnot.

12m rise and your golden.  Fun on water fun on snow.  A bit big for looping, but the right size for big lofty airs.  It takes a good long while to get bored with those!


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Getting a 10m razor after I make the transition from a foil to lei is in the future but I want to see how I like it firsts. You think the rise is okay for my big low wind kite?


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Joined 2012-02-16

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Will a 12m rise produce similar results to a 10m razor?  I’m not looking for massive. Massive air, but a good bit more fun than an 8m neo. With a larger board will a 10m do?  If I can get away with a 10m in 12-15 mph sacrificing low end for speed I’ll accept tat. What would you say the wind range is for a 180 lb rider for a 10 and 12m rise?


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10m razor 2011
185 lbs
real flat, real wide, real surfboard
9 years experience
fun starts at about 12 knots


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I think I’m gonna go with the razor in 12m.  Most people around here are rocking 14 and 15m kites for 9-17 knots. I think I should be good with the 12. Unfortunately I have no way to demo these kites. The closest tore in Seattle wants you to be sponsored by them or they need to “know you really well” and they don’t even carry or kites. Plus I can get a brand new razor for the price of some of their used stuff.

Is there a way to get the razor in different colors?  I’ve seen the other kites in other colors but I havnt seen the option. Are they size to color coordinated?


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Joined 2008-04-20

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no coordinated by stock..
Just ask what colors are available and pick one.. it will be a good choice !


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Okay so let’s say in 10-12 mph, 180 lbs on a 150 mako or thruster, what’s gonna best fit that?  10 or 12m razor.doing the research people are saying a 10 is gonna perform better because it has better low end than a 12. That doesn’t make sense to me. Can somebody explain?  I’m still confused.


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in 10 -12 mph I dont rig

takes at least 14+ mph to even tempt me.

12m is the right choice of kite but 10-12 mph is the sole territory of real big kites and super light wind boards.

Mako is not a super light wind board, 12m is not a huge kite.  Think 14+ mph and your good.


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Try the 10 RAZOR ... It’s speed helps develop apparent wind & you will be able to jump with practice ... For very light wind (10 - 12 knots) consider http://oceanrodeo.com/kiting/flite & a race/surf/skim board .

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Brent4336 - 20 February 2012 04:25 PM

in 10 -12 mph I dont rig

takes at least 14+ mph to even tempt me.

12m is the right choice of kite but 10-12 mph is the sole territory of real big kites and super light wind boards.

Mako is not a super light wind board, 12m is not a huge kite.  Think 14+ mph and your good.


So then are you saying that the 10m? is the choice for 14mph or the 12m?


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For real light wind, 7-10kts, you need a big kite, Flite 15-17, or maybe be better a Flysurfer sa 19m.
But you will always need a light wind board like a Door or Skim… Big investment for a few knots..
I will post how my Razor 10 will perform with a skim.. I think it will be around 10-11 kts for my 70kg.. With sub 15 kts I do some things at home with the family or play at the beach with the kids when I am on a holiday… It will take some time before I can post the outcome..


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K, Ill put it this way.

If….. you are 180, this is your first tube kite and learning on a twin tip board then I suggest you get a 12m kite.  Your going to be up and riding more often and improve faster.  Its a great size, is just fast enough, has loads of range and can jump really well.  Once your fully addicted your going to want a smaller kite anyway and will begin to know more about what suits you. 

The confusion comes from the fact that an experienced rider can fly a punchy 10m kite around fast enough in 14 mph winds to produce almost* all the pull they can get out of a slower 12m.  Kites get slower as they get bigger and its not that you cant work a 12m kite or a 14m kite, it just kinda gives diminishing returns.  The sweet spot for speed vs power is usually around the 10m size.

None of that applies to the beginner.  Its challenge enough to learn to coordinate kite and board and point upwind.  Besides, kite skill alone is not enough to make a go of a 10m kite as your big kite.  It also takes a pretty specific board.  Something really efficient that planes up early and keeps going fast through the lulls.  Flat, wide surfboards designed for small waves, skimboards, doors, and raceboards are pretty much what work.

So… If your a super freak, know what to look for in a surf or skimboard, are willing to go strapless in the light stuff, for sure get a 10m razor.

If your planning on using a mako 150, a regular twintip or a standard thruster surfboard its unrealistic to think your going to be able to make a 10m work in anything less than 17/18 mph winds.  Where with a couple seasons practice and the right board, you could get that down to 13/14 mph.

As mentioned 10-12 mph is true big kite territory… think big flysurfer foils and light wind specific tubes like OR’s flite.

12-16 mph is med size kite low end depending on rider skill and board choice.

Generally a beginner is going to need around 16-20 mph to get onto the learning curve with a 12m and a regular twintip.

Up over 20 mph and because big kites can depower so well and small kites can be worked for so much more power, you can have a huge variation in kite size.  Where some dudes love to hold down their 14m and boost old school, others can rip on a surfboard with an 8m.

Again, 180 lbs beginner on a twintip and a 12m will get you out far more than a 10m.

Further down the line, if your willing to switch to mostly strapless riding then for sure a 10m is viable. 

Most common size kite around here is and always has been a 12m.


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Brent4336 - 21 February 2012 01:05 AM

K, Ill put it this way.

If….. you are 180, this is your first tube kite and learning on a twin tip board then I suggest you get a 12m kite.  Your going to be up and riding more often and improve faster.  Its a great size, is just fast enough, has loads of range and can jump really well.  Once your fully addicted your going to want a smaller kite anyway and will begin to know more about what suits you. 

The confusion comes from the fact that an experienced rider can fly a punchy 10m kite around fast enough in 14 mph winds to produce almost* all the pull they can get out of a slower 12m.  Kites get slower as they get bigger and its not that you cant work a 12m kite or a 14m kite, it just kinda gives diminishing returns.  The sweet spot for speed vs power is usually around the 10m size.

None of that applies to the beginner.  Its challenge enough to learn to coordinate kite and board and point upwind.  Besides, kite skill alone is not enough to make a go of a 10m kite as your big kite.  It also takes a pretty specific board.  Something really efficient that planes up early and keeps going fast through the lulls.  Flat, wide surfboards designed for small waves, skimboards, doors, and raceboards are pretty much what work.

So… If your a super freak, know what to look for in a surf or skimboard, are willing to go strapless in the light stuff, for sure get a 10m razor.

If your planning on using a mako 150, a regular twintip or a standard thruster surfboard its unrealistic to think your going to be able to make a 10m work in anything less than 17/18 mph winds.  Where with a couple seasons practice and the right board, you could get that down to 13/14 mph.

As mentioned 10-12 mph is true big kite territory… think big flysurfer foils and light wind specific tubes like OR’s flite.

12-16 mph is med size kite low end depending on rider skill and board choice.

Generally a beginner is going to need around 16-20 mph to get onto the learning curve with a 12m and a regular twintip.

Up over 20 mph and because big kites can depower so well and small kites can be worked for so much more power, you can have a huge variation in kite size.  Where some dudes love to hold down their 14m and boost old school, others can be rip on a surfboard with an 8m.

Again, 180 lbs beginner on a twintip and a 12m will get you out far more than a 10m.

Further down the line, if your willing to switch to mostly strapless riding then for sure a 10m is viable. 

Most common size kite around here is and always has been a 12m.

Most helpful reply I’ve had so far!  Thanks a whole lot.  Okay, can I get a similar reply on this topic….12m razor for the low end do I can make the most of my sessions.  Yes or no?