I’ve had lessons and and I’m up and riding - not quite up wind.
I’m looking into buying new or slightly used kites at this point, mostly deltas, but also considering a Razor/Rise due to build quality and reputation amongst friends. Safety/stability and build quality are top priorities…
- locations: mostly Wilmington-NC/OuterBanks (12-25knots) but I travel and telecommute frequently, so probably lots of conditions.
Razor or Rise: I think I read that the Razor can be tuned/toned down a bit for a beginner? Based on what I’ve read, I think I’m more interested in the Razor due to stability and relaunch.
Size: Would a 12/8 be a wise choice? However, due to reported lowend and power of these kites, I wonder if I’d frequently miss out on the money size for my weight and wind conditions, which might be a 10m.
I’m struggling a bit about how to build an affordable quiver without getting myself into situations where I don’t have a safe/proper size for the conditions. That said, I don’t see myself riding in anything over 25 knots for a long time.
Thanks for the help and I apologize for what is probably a lot of forum redundancy. But before I drop cash I wanted some direct feedback.
I am in a very similar situation as you are and posted some question to Johnz (OR Sales) on this one. He definitely recommended having a small and large board for different situations- I am 170lbs and was personally thinking about a 140 Mako and smaller JT Pro.
As a newbie I was looking at first at the Rises but am having a hard time deciding Rise or Razor. Johnz advised that the 4m difference in kites while doable is not really optimal and recommended a max of 3m difference (example: a 12m and 9m quiver).
I hope this helps. It would be great to hear others opinions on this one as well.
I weigh about what you weigh and have a quiver with a 3m spread between kites, I have a 6m, 9m and 12m Rise. To be honest the 6m really is just for those ballistic days when its 25-30 gusting more and I don’t want to play with the trim too much. Below this I could get away with the 12 and the 9. The 9 is my go to kite, I love it! I also have two boards, my 133 litewave as my go to board, with a 169 in case of really marginal days on the 12m when there’s only just enough to get going.
I have no experience of the Razor though, so Sunrise’s suggestion could well do the trick.
I agree with Richard ( Sunrise ) that a 10m Razor and two boards would cover you pretty well and be the foundation of a great quiver - plan what to buy now to complement what you expect to get in the future - for example, start with the above, then save up to round it out with two more kites : 7m Rise and a 14 Rise or 15m Rise/Razor Light-wind. Then you wll be set up for a huge range in conditions.
I definitely wouldn’t go 8/12 m. I started this season with 8 & 12m Rises and found that 4m jump ( I’m ~ 175 lbs ) too much, picked up a 10m Rise and that is definitely a do-all kite, huge range.
Your next question will likely be which two boards - answer : smallish twin-tip and either large light-wind oriented twin or bigger surfboard - most folks starting out go for the big TT, as they are easier to ride.
At 160lbs i can ride my 8m razor in 12-15mph at the coast on an airush sector 52. i do have to continuously move the kite but it does speak to the low end of the razor. At 18mph and up I am powered on my mako.
I am actually selling my 2011 razor 8m if interested. has one tiny repair but otherwise in great shape and used less than 15 times. i dropped the price to 500$ kite only.
I’ve been doing the 8/12 split for the last four years (3 on OR Rises) and this year on the razor. I’m 185lbs, 7 years experience riding. I found the 8/12 excellent on the Rise (2008-2010 models). (I would agree with the board bit though - surfboard/spleene session for light wind, mako 150 wide for waves nasty chop, zen 129 for highwind/wake style, and most recently JT Pro 138.
The Razor is more sensitive to size changes than the Rise for sure, and the smaller 8m razor has way more oomph and less depower in sudden, unexpected gusts (like +20-30km/hr to baseline wind), but I’ve still haven’t felt out of control or ripped off an edge with it (yet! A single 10m Razor would probably get me out in everything up to about 40km/hr and then an 6-7m Rise for the really strong stuff would fill in nicely.
I’ll finish this post in a bit, just got called away….
10M RAZOR would be a great start ... A used 7 RISE would give you a great kite for the high wind range ... A 2010 (included with 2011) rise can be moded with the ‘roll over bridle’. Start with the 140x40 MAKO & acquire the 130x35 MAKO as you become more efficient for those high wind sessions.
I have spent this entire season on my 8 meter razor. I own a 6 and have been on it twice but it has to be nuking for it to be enjoyable. So I concur with JL go 10 meter and enjoy. I ride a mini mako and want to get a surf board for those super light days. Welcome to the sport!
there’s a 7 - 10 Razor option (the 7 is 2012, it’ll be out in a month or two) You could opt for a 2011 10m with the small bar - available at a premium right now - and wait out for the 2012 7m, when the autumn storms hit.
The 10m Rise is another great kite, I sold my 2010 to a friend and it’s for the greatness of the Razor that I’m not totally jealous. Ultimate freeride machine!
Though I wont argue that a 10m razor is the cats ass, as a beginner your probably not going to get the absolute low end out of it yet. I’m happy with that as my main kite but I’m spending 80% of the time on a surfboard these days due to lack of wind. If your on a twin tip, its worth knowing that most guys like me have owned a 12 or larger every year for the past 8. To go with a 10 as your big kite is best for those on surfboards that have a few seasons experience.
You also outweigh me by a couple beer. I’d suggest you get a 12 and continue the learning curve on that. With a twin tip, thats going to cover you nicely for the ideal conditions and by the time you need a smaller one, you’ll be ready for it and know a little more about what direction you want to go in.
Brent makes a valid point, most 185 lb beginners feel the need for a bit more kite, and a 12m to start ( if you expect more of your riding in wind in the lower end of your 12 -25 knot range ) as your light-wind kite would probably feel nicely powered, while a 10m may feel a little under-powered, unless paired with a wide & flat-rockered light-wind twin-tip ( which tend to turn like a bus ).
Second high-wind kite should probably be a 9m, as the best jump down from a 12.
Me, at 175 lbs, I’ve had a 12/9 m quiver for many years, but with a couple boards - average and small TT’s.
Truth is it’s all good, kites have a ton of range now, it’s not just kite size, but the combination with board size/shape. Changing boards is way faster than switching kites, if/when the wind changes significantly.
But if you start with 10m & two boards, you will learn faster how to kite efficiently and work your kite, by necessity.
Nah, I still say, start with a 10m and 2 boards ( Mako King and smallish TT ) and you will spend more time riding and less time pumping the second kite.
Best thing you can do is arrange to try boards and kites out, then you’ll know for sure what will make you happiest.
Yeah, I’m your size, 185 lbs, and in similar winds - Charleston, SC. Actually I’m from Wilmington originally. Anyways, I like a bit more kite, so I’m riding a 12/8 Razor combo, the 12m Razor has a narrower wind band, and is a little less forgiving than the Rise. I did the bulk of my beginning kiting on a 12m LF Havoc and then a 12m OR Rise.
I’d say just beginning you may not be riding a surfboard quite as much, and you may be a bit intimidated about going out in 25 knot winds. That’s why I would say maybe a 12m Rise because of it’s range, and a 8m Razor. The 12m Rise is really forgiving to learn on and has great range. The 8m Razor is just a great kite, and as you progress and maybe move into riding a surfboard more and being more comfortable in high winds, you will really start to get the most out of that kite.
The 10m is definitely enough for 75% of the winds you will get in Wilmington, but you will find the more your riding advances the more you will be able to get out of each kite. So that’s why I’m saying go with the 12m Rise as your main kite most of the time, and the 8m Razor for higher winds (18-25 knots) and for when you get better.
Also, definitely go with the freeride bar, the extra throw comes in handy.
I am very grateful to the developers for Ocean Rodeo kite Razor, with his help I learned a month and a half items such as freestyle: Raley to Blind, Raley to wrapped, BackRoll to blind, Blind judge, S-Band to blind, Air Pass, Kiteloop Handlepass, 313, Megaloops, backroll megaloops. I advise everyone, this is a great kite for progress in kiting.