Crew - be sure to check out my Blog posting for a full “John Z” perspective on the main differences between the 2 styles of kites this season. I have been asked a lot about the differences and thought I would blog a quick post to get it all out there.
Hope this helps guide your purchase decisions this spring!
I’ve just spent the day playing on the 10m Razor and would have to agree with your comments on the jumps. Which is a shame, coz I was out there thinking that you’d written something different about the Razor and was all set to contradict you.
With a combination of being slightly overpowered as the wind picked up and some judicious use of speed, I got some of the highest jumps I’ve ever attained. It does indeed rip you off the water, and although it doesn’t have that nice floaty glide that I love out of the Rise, I couldn’t help grinning from the adrenalin of that vertical take off.
It also behaved very well with a handful of trim. My friend was nicely powered on his 8m Rise at the same time, where all other things between us are similar (weight, board size etc). So that’s encouraging to know.
I really wanted to test it’s low end too, but that wasn’t happening today as the wind increased into the afternoon. That can wait for another time.
the razor is a wicked wave kite, seems “snappier” than the rise, but gives you more feedback through the bar.. which was one of my gripes about the older rises (which i ride). means you can forget the kite and spot your wave!
If you compare the 12m sizes of the Rise and Razor, which one makes it easier to go upwind in very light wind? According to the blog post, the “Razor sits deeper in the window than the Rise” so I would guess that the Rise allows to go upwind in a steeper angle?
Regarding turning speed, the text says that “the tighter arc of the Razor results in a faster turning kite”. How big is the difference on those big 12m sizes in let’s say 15 knots of wind?
Vpas, I’m glad you try to keep me accountable, someone has to! I’m glad both you and Harry agree with my assessment though!
Twinkler, the Rise pulls upwind harder, no question. Especially if you move the bridle settings forward on both the front and back attachments - a setting most of the San Fran racing Crew all use. The Razor still goes to windward well but the Rise just naturally wants to jet to the outside of the window and will pull you up wind as a result.
Regarding turning speeds, the Razor 12 - imo - turns at a comparable speed to the Rise 10. However, it turns in a different way - I’m going to make Ross wince here but here’s my take - the Razor turns about itself, deep in the window. This results in it snapping around and staying powered. The Rise turns about its wingtip and seems to need to swing wide in the window before coming back through to generate power again. Both have their advantages, it just comes down to what you prefer!
How is the jumping between a 12m Razor and a 12m Rise? I really like the 8m Razor, and how it boosts out of the water a lot quicker and harder than the Rise, but I was figuring that’s more because of the difference in size and speed of the kite then anything else.
At 185 lbs. I’m guessing I can hold the 12m Razor down to 18 or 19 knots, and then jump over to the 8m? Right now the 12m Rise with it’s extended range has been a nice complement to the 8m Razor, but I’m definitely thinking about upgrading to a 12m Razor as well.
“Twinkler, the Rise pulls upwind harder, no question. Especially if you move the bridle settings forward on both the front and back attachments - a setting most of the San Fran racing Crew all use. The Razor still goes to windward well but the Rise just naturally wants to jet to the outside of the window and will pull you up wind as a result.”
John A. Zimmerman
Sales & Marketing Manager
Ocean Rodeo Sports Inc
Ocean Rodeo Performance Over Hype!
Hey Crew!! I am just a little curious about this comment. I have a 2010 Ocean Rodeo Rise and 11m kite and it does not have adjustments for the front bridle attachment. There is one single attachment and then the obvious two attachments for the steering lines. Can someone fill me in on this? Did I recieve a factory dud??? Just trying to find out.
I have an 8 and 10 of each kite and have been flying all of them, there is not much I can add to JZ’s detailed and well written blog post but here are a few of my observations.
I can fly the 8 Razor in winds that I would normally fly the 10 Rise, incredible low end. The range is much tighter however, so if the wind is really variable or is forecast to pickup quite a bit during my ride I’ll generally take the Rise because of the range. If the wind looks pretty steady I grab the Razor. I’m 190 lbs, 6 feet, and can fly the 10 Razor in 15=18 mph and the 8 Razor is great at 18-22. I fly my 10 Rise in 15-24 and the 8 Rise in 22-32 (ish).
I have really come to appreciate having both on hand as the ride experience is similar yet very different if that makes any sense. Razor is a bit more hard charging in my book, you have to be on your game, concentrate a bit harder, landings and loops are more powered (which makes em more fun but they hurt more if you miss). I absolutely LOVE the full power through the turns, that was one of my only problems with the Rise.
Razor, better for unhooked tricks for sure. But the Rise is probably the better all around 1 size fits all kite if you had to choose, it’s just so versatile. I would say if you are working on mostly freestyle stuff or mostly wave riding.. Razor for sure, if you like to do it all and do a lot of floaty hooked in tricks, Rise.
The Rise jumps, loops, screams upwind, huge range, fun on waves, floats for ever, really it can do it all.
The Razor loops like nothing else, full power through turns, jumps really high, and very smooth and stable unhooked, I can ride around for 30 seconds at a time unhooked and it’s smooth and stable.
Hey Ghostdog, are you powered or just “going” on the 10m in 15-18mph? I use a 12m for most of my riding and I am having a hard time seeing myself with a 10m for my big kite. I like to ride powered!
I would say perfectly powered at 18 and overpowered at 22-23, but underpowered and really just going at 15. 15-17 would be a kind of ho-hum session, getting some moderate jumps and low altitude tricks in at the gusts… 17-20 would be really good, about where I would want to be, I like to be powered myself (but not digging in my heels, totally sheeted, no steering left on the kite over-powered.
If you had lots of 14-16 days I would stay with the 12, where I ride, we get more 16-20 days so the 10 is great for my ‘big’ kite (which is hard to believe! My big kite used to be a 17 Fuel back in the day)
? I currently ride 12-9-6 Rises and I am looking to replace my 2009 12m before it get too old.
you could easily replace your 12 Rise with a 10 Razor, they are pretty similar in low end. I’m finding roughly that where I would take a 10 Rise I take the 8 Razor and where I would take the 12 Rise I take the 10 Razor. I’m 190 lbs, and an 8 and 10 of each works for me in almost all conditions unless it’s over about 35 MPH in which case the 8 Rise gets a bit overpowered.
That said, in really light winds, it’s my feeling that the 12 Rise would go upwind better than the 10 Razor. The Razor needs a bit of wind so you can dig your heels in and force the kite to the edge of the window, while the Rise is naturally far forward so you can stand up straight and still get upwind a bit.
just want to chime in on this. I have a 8m razor as my main kite. Our inland conditions have been 18-30+ lately and the razor does just fine. it is very smooth in the gusts and i have been able to ride out gusts in the high 30’s approaching 40. I weigh 160lbs and ride a mako 150.
just wanted to give my 2 cents on the razor’s upper end as there seems to be a perception that it doesn’t do so well in gusty conditions. keep in mind i have no experience with the rise and am coming from c kites.
My first test flight of the 10 m Razor produced my biggest jump of my life. the first time I threw it back I felt like I got shot out of a cannon. It scared me because I just kept going up! I tested them all this winter and now have 10 and 12 Razors. I wanted a good wave kite for the coast, usually mid teens, and the 12 should be perfect. I agree with John Z comments. Good assessment of the Rise vs. Razor. I kept my 2010 Rise 7 m for the best Gorge kite I’ve ever used. Way to go OR!