2011 Razor

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Joined 2006-10-06

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My wife is very good and will let me have one new kite (more if I sell my present quiver)The question is which size? I’m also around 65kilos. At the moment I’m thinking keep 7m Rise and get 9m Razor but will watch this thread with interest. It would be nice to get away with an 8 or 9 as my biggest.

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andy

Dorset UK


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Joined 2006-01-09

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Im pretty sure a 9 m would be a good kite. As your biggest, I don’t know, maybe a 10.
10, 8 and 6 can be the good combinaison .
I’m as lost as u right now hehehe.


By the way, I’ll try to release a full JT pro review on my site for Monday !!!!


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First, a big thanks to everyone who has contributed info and reviews already.

Second, more info/reviews focusing on sizing please! I get 3 new kites to replace 2 year old 14m and 10m Rises.

Debating between a 14/11/8 and a 12/9/7 quiver of Razors. I weigh about 90kg (195lb). Lots of unstable wind here so gotta keep to 3m spacing, max.

My trusty 14m has seen the most usage by far, but while it keeps me upwind from 12 knots, it won’t pop very nicely until about 16knots, when I can pull a few cm of depower. It is starting to sound like a 12m Razor might have me unhooking fairly nicely from 15-16 knots, and below that if it is just cruising I might as well be on my surfboard anyways. Also concerned about high end - I really want something for those super nuking days both at home and on trips to warmer lands.


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I’ve been thinking that at around 65kilos my ideal 2011 quiver would consist of 6, 8 and 10 Razor.

Current projects elsewhere would leave me being strung up by my kids let alone the wife if I did that so realistically at this time I will be looking at keeping my 7m Rise and having a two kite quiver with maybe the 9m Razor?

I will wait and see what else is said about the low end capabilities of the Razor compared to the Rise. In previous seasons and with the winds we get here in the UK I have been perfect 90% of the time with a 10m Rise as my biggest.

The smaller I can get away with the better. As long as I can ride upwind and have sufficient power for basic hooked in tricks and jumping I will be good to go.

These thoughts are based on a board such as Mini Mako/132 Zen with the possibility of a directional surfboard to boot.

If Evan reads this….You’re not a heavy rider. Your 6 and 8 Razor kite choice for 2011? Is that based on the fact that you get consistantly strong wind in San Fran. or that you’re riding a surfboard all the time?

Cheers

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andy

Dorset UK


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Joined 2010-09-20

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Hello:

I´m 80kg on twintip 133x40.
I love my Rise 2009, 8mts range , and would like to know what size of Razor to buy, with similar windrange.
Is posible the Razor 7 mts , to start in 18 knots, and rich around 40 knots ?? , it will be great but the rise is in this range.
If not , can anybody tell me the windrange of the Razors, I cannot find it anywhere…....

If not posible what size of Rise 2010 has this windrange ??

Thaks for asnwers.


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Razor comes in 4,6,8,10, 12. No odds - work it out.smile

Today I had my first real session on the Razor…....let’s just say that my beloved Rise kites are for sale!

6m, high teens, maybe the odd gust over 20. 5’11 Surf. Normally I would have taken an 8 or 9m Rise but really wanted to try the 6 Razor. I’m stoked I did. Bullet points:

1) Way more low end than the Rise. Another rider was pumping his 11m Rise and took my eight and rocker it. A third tester said the eight pulled harder than his 10m Rise.

2) Super fast, on its own axis turning - this is a sick wave kite.

3)  Instant relaunch - easy the bar out, the kite pivots, pull a little and she’s up.

4) Unhooking - no comparison to the Rise - no backstall at all at full power (no trim required) and far more control and consistent position in the window.

Overall, the Rise of course has a larger wind range on account of the massive top end, but in every other department she gives it up to the Razor. Hands down I think’ll you struggle to find a comparable kite to the Razor on the market. smile

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Joined 2009-01-17

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So could you say that the Razor, compared to the Rise
- Sits deeper in the wind window,
- pivot turns, rather than turning from the tips,
- has a stronger static pull at the edge of the wind window,
- has higher bar pressure?

How is the upwind vector and jumping(height, hangtime) compared to the Rise?
Since the Razor sits deeper in the window, I would expect the Rise to have advantages here.

How do both compare in depower per bar throw?

Top end?
I found the 2010 Rise deforms significantly less than the 2009 when overpowered. But to be realistic it doesn’t fly great if you trim it a huge amount, which is probably general common sense.

Kiteloops?
If the Razor sits deeper in the window I would expect more thumb here, however pivot turns would outbalance that again.
Another thing about pivot turning kites is that they don’t tend to catch you well in loops. I reckon the reason why the 2010 Rise improved in that department is because it turns more from the tips.


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Brilliant post Evan!

So what will your 2011 quiver be?

6 and 8 Razor with the OR 5’11” directional? Still going with a 6m Rise for super windy days too?

I’m your weight but also want mini Mako/JT pro. Undecided which at this time. Want the ease of ride in chop that the Mako should give but don’t want to sacrifice too much in the way of ‘pop’ for basic freestyle stuff.

Cheers

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andy

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EvanStolze - 21 September 2010 04:17 AM

Razor comes in 4,6,8,10, 12. No odds - work it out.smile

Really?? Is this the latest update? The initial press release said that there would be 7,9,and 11 as well.


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silas - 21 September 2010 01:46 PM
EvanStolze - 21 September 2010 04:17 AM

Razor comes in 4,6,8,10, 12. No odds - work it out.smile

Really?? Is this the latest update? The initial press release said that there would be 7,9,and 11 as well.

Really.

Cheers,

Evan

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KnutHansen - 21 September 2010 06:58 AM

So could you say that the Razor, compared to the Rise
- Sits deeper in the wind window,
- pivot turns, rather than turning from the tips,
- has a stronger static pull at the edge of the wind window,
- has higher bar pressure?

How is the upwind vector and jumping(height, hangtime) compared to the Rise?
Since the Razor sits deeper in the window, I would expect the Rise to have advantages here.

How do both compare in depower per bar throw?

Top end?
I found the 2010 Rise deforms significantly less than the 2009 when overpowered. But to be realistic it doesn’t fly great if you trim it a huge amount, which is probably general common sense.

Kiteloops?
If the Razor sits deeper in the window I would expect more thumb here, however pivot turns would outbalance that again.
Another thing about pivot turning kites is that they don’t tend to catch you well in loops. I reckon the reason why the 2010 Rise improved in that department is because it turns more from the tips.

I’ll let the freestylers post their own thoughts (see Jeremie Tronet’s blog (you’ll find answers to your questions addressed), but my friend Andrew was kite looping the hell out of the 8m yesterday and his first comments were that it was far superior to the Rise, as the Razor caught him after the loop whereas he gets dropped with his Rise kites.

If top end and range are your priorities, get a Rise. If not, get a Razor - easy as pie.smile

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andy - 21 September 2010 11:03 AM

Brilliant post Evan!

So what will your 2011 quiver be?

6 and 8 Razor with the OR 5’11” directional? Still going with a 6m Rise for super windy days too?

I’m your weight but also want mini Mako/JT pro. Undecided which at this time. Want the ease of ride in chop that the Mako should give but don’t want to sacrifice too much in the way of ‘pop’ for basic freestyle stuff.

Cheers

Thanks Andy - you are going to be stoked…......6, 8 and 5’11, my Rises are mothballed, 4m for the 30+ big wave days over the winter.smile. I was initially concerned that the 6m Razor would not have the top end I need, but after riding it, those fears are gone. The new JT Pro is also very sweet - lighter than the Zen, and significantly more flex - you’ll like it for sure.

Cheers,

Evan

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but, but, but my perfectly perfect 12-9-7 quiver. mama noooooo!


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Joined 2007-09-26

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got to spend 2+ hours yesterday on the 2011 8m Razor and it is sick!!! Here is my review. I was riding with Evan on his 6m Razor.  Thanks for the demo Evan!

First - I am 185 lbs, riding a 5’4” Naish surfboard, in wind in the low 20’s at Crissy field in San Francisco. I have had OR Rises every year for the last 4 years, Torches before that. I’ll mainly compare it to the Rise.

I took this kite out despite the fact that everyone was on 10m and 11m, I just really wanted to try it.

The kite is lower aspect than the rise with a more pronounced “C” shape. It’s nice and light with the 4 struts. In the sky it has more of a deep pocketed look, like a wainman does above you.

Power:
I was blown away by the low end grunt. I was well powered and I felt like the kite had the power of almost 10m Rise, more power than the 9m Rise. It’s also very easy to generate power with the kite. It sits a bit further back than the Rise, but not way back like a real wave kite (Kima, Catalyst, Renagade)
The Razor does not handle the gusts as well as the rise or other such kites. You feel what the wind is doing and you need to use your board more to control power, you can’t just turn it off by sheeting out. It’s more like a C kite in this way, but not that harsh.

At 185 lbs I will be getting 6,8,10 to replace my 7,9,11 Rises. You will not be able to run huge 4m gaps between Razors, you’ll end up disappointed. ( I think that 4m gaps suck on any kite)

Turning:
This is where it shines. It was super fast, even for an 8m. It zips across the window really fast. There is much more consistant pull through turns than the Rise and it climbs back up much faster without having to sheet way out. I didn’t have real waves, but rode a few head high tanker wakes which are like sideshore wave. It is way better at this than the Rise, you just have fast steady power thoughout the turn and it’s much harder to stall, even riding right at it.
The bar is very sensitive to inputs, which I like, but might be less forgiving to some riders.

Jumping:
Timing might be a bit harder, but it has good yank and great loft. It jumps as well as any other kite i’ve been on. LOOPS are where it also shines. I liked the rise a lot, but it didn’t loop great. The Razor generates much more power and catches you much better for softer landings. I had so much fun I must have done 50 kiteloops. I didn’t unhook while riding, but I did on the beach and without trimming at all the kite stayed stable and didn’t stall. Ideally it needs a bit of trim, but not a ton.

Relaunch
I crashed the Razor a few times to test relaunch and it is also better. Due to the lower aspect it will move by itself (auto-relaunch) to the edge of the window and wait to be steered into the sky. I didn’t need to pull a line at all. Granted this was on an 8m in decent wind.

All in all I would say this is definitely the kite to buy if you are an advanced rider or an intermediate looking to get into waves or freestyle. It is a much more involved, direct ride and will reward a good rider. For those looking to just cruise and do some jumps I would still get the Rise. The Rise has better range, better high end and a more forgiving ride. The Rise will still be a better kite for racing due to it’s range and upwind ability.

I hope this helps.

Anyone want to buy my hardly used 2010 11m Rise with bar?


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Joined 2007-10-02

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No odd sizes is a bit of a bummer. 12,9,6 is the perfect 3 kite setup for me. 12-8 is just a little bit much.