One Bridle Mod - shorter version of Dynamic / Direct Mod

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Joined 2006-05-30

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Noo noo -  Interesting observation, will have to look for it next time out. Does it happen at all de-power trim levels, or more at one end of the trim range ?

What do you think of the kite with this bridle ?

If the E line is going slack, then the steering line must be distorting LE and wingtip into a deeper ‘C’, closer to the outer end of the V2 line, eliminating tension in E. So the LE of that wingtip around the old pulley point is only under support from the bladders and airflow pressures. Tension from trailing edge should tilt the wingtip bladder and put that wingtip in a higher AOA ( Angle of Attack ), which ought to move the wingtip LE out and away from the end of V2, keeping E tight.

Pump your wingtip struts rock hard too ? Makes me think the steering line attachment point is loading the LE too much and not enough on the trailing edge. Wonder what would happen if that steering line was attached to the TE ? Maybe an improvement in turning?

Hmm….  When I think about the wingtip folding together that I described a few posts earlier on my 7m, along with the tips deflecting together into a deeper C, there was also a twisting of the wingtips’ LE inward. Maybe it’s related to what Noo noo has noticed.

Need some close-up video footage of this weirdness, or better, many hours of riding !

BTW, a week or so back I had a great day on my 9m in GUSTY 10-30 knts, pumped rock hard and kite flew great, no weirdness. Also got to ride a friend’s ‘08 8m Rise, first time on an 8 Rise for me, as my only Rise is a 12.  Wow, fun kite.

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Total Posts: 446

Joined 2006-10-24

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Hi Greg

yes steering input (and powering up) is pulling the wingtip in a bit, deforming the leading edge. Perhaps I need to inflate to a higher pressure. I had the kite fully powered a the time. I haven’t had a just to try it with any trim pulled in but I suspect a similar result.

The good news is though I had a really sweet hour on it after before the wind dropped. I definately need more time on it for sure to be 100% but the extra steering response mixed with the good things the ONE did have going for it is a bonus. The float is still there. The kite is still reliant on a lot of wind or apparent wind to get going.

As a final thought I’m going to add about 8” of line with a knot every 2” to the steering lines. That way on a really windy day I can depower the kite on set up and reduce the amount of trim I can have pulled through the cleat.

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Total Posts: 112

Joined 2006-05-30

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Relaunch improvements - how I have seen big improvements :

I kite alot in a small lagoon where you can ride butter-smooth water on the upwind side of the lagoon. When launching solo, I’d secure my chicken loop and put the kite in the water straight downwind LE down, then go back to the bar, and launch the kite. With the factory bridle, the kite used to be stable sitting downwind on its LE.

Now, with the mod bridle, it’s not stable LE edge down, unless the wind is really light. Now I have to bolt back to the bar, because usually by the time I get to the bar, the kite has swung to one side, and is in the process of re-launching.

The direct rear line has greatly improved kite re-launching.

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Total Posts: 446

Joined 2006-10-24

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yes definately. relaunch is daft now.

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Total Posts: 112

Joined 2006-05-30

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Had a long ride in bright sun yesterday on my 12 One. Started with a surfboard and swell-riding, then the wind came up and I switched to a twin & jumping. Last time I flew my 12, it had Wisha’s longer dynamic/direct mod. My shorter version seems similar, maybe a little heavier on the bar, I may shorten my E line 2 or 3 cm.

With good light, I could see the slack on the E line in a hard turn, as Noo noo has reported, and confirmed what was suspected in prior posts. Nothing obvious or easy to be done about it I can suggest. Anyone else ?

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Total Posts: 446

Joined 2006-10-24

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I suppose the obvious answer is a pulley greg.

Wonder if there is any mileage in a additional pulley there or swapping the pulley on V1 over to it?

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Joined 2006-05-30

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Let’s see what Wisha says about a pulley on the F & E pair.  He sent me a PM a while back about the line on the old pulley point. I’m pretty sure he’s tried it, and the kite loaded up too heavily on the E line, setting the kite on too large an angle-of-attack to have any de-power - same effect as shortening the E by 3 - 5 cm.

But on the upside, it may give the LE at the F attachment point some room to flex out, and speed up turning.

Wisha, any comments on this ?

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Total Posts: 446

Joined 2006-10-24

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Hi Greg.

Pumping the leading edge and tip struts hard helped on my last session. It was less obvious.
Perhaps it may be worth dropping that line all together and reverting to Wisha’s original bridle suggestion (keep the A lines though) but I’m not 100% if that takes a little bit away from the kite in terms of float. I’d have to test it more.

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Total Posts: 54

Joined 2008-11-03

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Hi guys, glad to see there is still some interest. I have never had any kite distortion on my 12m, but I always pump it up to 9 Psi. As for the E line slacking off, it can be a benefit when loading the kite up as it increases the bar pressure right when you want it. I tried using a pulley at that point with my version of the mod, but haven’t tried it with Greg’s shorter version.

As Greg stated earlier my findings was it lost all its bar pressure, so no depower at all. Not sure how it would go with the changed dynamic of Gregs shorter version. To be safe I would run a pulley with a stopper knot that can slowly be made further and further back (not fun being pulled by the front lines with the bar having no effect!). I think the pulley / stopper knot configuration would be a winner.


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Total Posts: 112

Joined 2006-05-30

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Been thinking about this slack E line in hard turns, kind of rolling around in my head in the background for a while, and ...

I’m thinking it’s a symptom of the rear steering line not putting all its tension on the trailing edge as it’s supposed to, but instead loading and deforming the LE inboard. 

My solution - move the steering line attachment point from the end of the LE and put it instead right on the trailing edge,  about half-way between wingtip and the end of the first strut.

Am I certain enough about this to start stitching webbing onto a kite - maybe, would like to hear what others have to say about my theory ....

If I’m correct, and it improves tension on the trailing edge,  and allows the turning-side LE to open out ( keeping E line taught ) then turning ought to be improved.

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Total Posts: 446

Joined 2006-10-24

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Definately an issue related to the very flat profile of the kite Greg.

Must admit I’m reluctant to move the attachment point though. Pulling on the canopy directly will merely pull the wingtip strut and leading edge closer together. Steering response will most certainly be lost IMO along with more deformation of the canopy.

I’ll keep thinking.

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Joined 2008-11-05

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I just read all your efforts to tune the ONE kites. It sounds very interesting but I am still not convinced if I should change the bridle mod of my 2007 ONE 7m.
I think the current setup is OK. Do you think there is so much improvement in stability, that I should give it a try?

Malte


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Total Posts: 112

Joined 2006-05-30

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Malte - let’s define “stability” to make sure we’re both talking about the same thing - here’s what it means to me :

Stability - how the kite reacts to short-term changes in wind conditions, both speed ( gusts / lulls ) and direction ( wind shifts ), particularly when parked at zenith or at the edge of the wind window, with or without reactive counter-measures from the rider.

IMO, the One with factory bridle is a pretty stable kite. Loads of de-power, so handles gusts well by sheeting out, but not too much, otherwise, particularly in higher winds, it’s prone to inverting and flailing around until it pops back into design shape.

With the mod bridle, you lose a little de-power, but gain stability when sheeted way out. The kite’s a lot less prone to inversions.  The E bridle line on the former pulley attachment point keeps the kite slightly sheeted in, even with the back/steering lines slack ( massively sheeted out ), and that, along with the reactive pulleys , IMO improves stability.

If you are riding and catch a gust, you’ll feel it more in your harness and less on the bar.

As for stability in shifty wind, the direct steering takes the lag ( 1/2 second delay ) out between the rider’s steering input and the kite’s reaction, making it easier to correct and handle the kite drifting around in wind shifts.

If you mod your bridle, post your results, and help others decide on the same questions.

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Total Posts: 54

Joined 2008-11-03

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Malte,
Basically you will take your 7m from an old generation kite to a current generation kite. If you are confident to do it then you will have nothing to lose.


Total Posts: 54

Joined 2008-11-03

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Greg,

Mate it has finally come time to part with my 12m ONE (It is now in the hands of the Ebay gods!). It is a great kite, but I’m now riding Delta kites and need to stick with kites of the same feel. Seems like people are starting to catch on with the benefits of the mod. Feel free to message me at any time if you want me to look at any ideas. I think we got it to about 95% of its potential.

To the rest of the OR ONE owners, if you are still flying them, do yourself a favour and try the mod…it works a treat!!