2 of 3
2
Has anyone tried a direct rear line on the One?
Posted: 26 July 2009 02:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  54
Joined  2008-11-03

Still not having any luck getting in pics up (any ideas anyone)? So i’ll try and write it as a guide.

Ok, here is part 1 - (Reduce bar pressure - increase low end).

Nothing revolutionary and simple to do. It assumes you have some knowledge of how to set up a kite. The kite I modified was a 12m ONE -2006 (tried to find out if the 07’s have the same bridle, but no luck so far, but the OR guys are getting back to me).

I have tried to use as much of the original bridle as I could.  Sorry you will need 2 extra pulleys and some bridle line. There will be some original lines left over, which you could use for extensions, to reduce the amount of extra line you need.

Instructions are given as descriptors so that hopefully it will be just as easy for a 9m to mod as a 16m (but please keep in mind I have only tried this on the 12m (but see no reason while the other sizes wont work).

I have about 20 different mods but I need more test time to decide the best. Might post them as well (more testers might speed up this process). Each mod gives a slightly different outcome. Hope I get the pics working.

So first off, the easiest, and focused on bar pressure. This might be all that is needed in the smaller sizes if they already turn ok?

Exchange the following lines on the bridle (will need to undo bridle- soaking knots in warm water helps):

Replace A with C
Now place E in old C position
B and D remain unchanged
Remove F
Add a new long line with a pulley running along it. Attach one end to the D/E junction, the other to where the old F spot use to attach to the leading edge.
The length of this line should be as long as you can without the puley going past the wingtip (ie so it will never get caught around the tip) come back at least 10 centimeters to allow for stretching.
*note chek this length when inflated as the kite will become ‘skinnier’ when inflated.
Now add the F line to the bottom of the pulley and attach to H.
At this point you may need to add extension pieces to lines H and I until the front and rear bridle lenghts are even when everything is taught throughout the bridle.
I simply added small lines with knots every few centimters at the H/I junction area. This is especially helpful with ‘I’as you can easily shorten or lengthen to adjust to your bar feedback/ turning speed here.
If it is stalling, increase the length at ‘I’ (drop it down a knot). Shorten if the steering is vague/slow.

To adjust turning speed I’ll explain in my next mod. This should increase turning a little anyway, and hopefully improve relaunch.


I will try and get pictures up explaining, especially the equal line length part, unless someone else has a good description .Just make sure they are all equal when pulled tight.  Luckily the OR bar allows ahuge adjustment of line length at the bar, so pull in some front line (depower strap) to start with just in case your line lengths are out. Then let out accordingly.

P.S. i would love some feedback to see what people think (or any improvements). ENJOY.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 26 July 2009 10:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  112
Joined  2006-05-30

Wisha - Is this sketch correct for Mod 1 ?

Let us know, I’m sure there are lots of One owners around ready to give it a try.

A table of new line lengths would be immensely appreciated too !  We could start with your 12m lengths and add lengths for the other sizes as they are reported.

FYI, I uploaded my sketch to photobucket.com, copied the “Direct Link” for my pic and stuck it in between the “[i em gee]”  and the “[/ i em g]” you get when you hit the “<img>”  button in the posting editor.

I messed with the {photo - bucket}  button but could not find the “string” for my pic that would work.  Any experts know what the “string” should be for my photo——http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx307/GregKnow/Onebridlemod1.jpg—-  ??

 Signature 

Comox Kite Repair
http://www.comoxkiterepair.ca

Profile
 
 
Posted: 27 July 2009 04:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  54
Joined  2008-11-03

Yeah that is pretty much it. However, you will need to place small extensions on I and H. So on my diagram I have 3 ‘x’ marks on the end of ‘I’ which symbolises an extension with 3 knots every 3cm so that you can make quick adjustments as shorter will turn faster, but the pressure becomes heavier and stalling can occur.

Also note that the front and rear line attachments need to be the same length. ‘I’ will need to be a few cm longer than half of H as the kite doesn’t fly in the air at the same angle as it is sitting on the ground. Ie it leans forward (especially when depowered).

Beware of risks, especially if you have H or I too short, it will create the same effect as sheeting in, meaning no depower!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 27 July 2009 07:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  443
Joined  2006-10-24

Seriously tempted with some of this here. Not sure on the above option mind.

Wisha - Have you tried a RISE type bridle arrangement? Might need the rear pigtails to split and pick up the attachement where the pulley is. I’d be more interested in that one perhaps. Especially if we could make the whole front end a lot shorter. No bridle wraps.

 Signature 

The only kiter in the Village

Profile
 
 
Posted: 27 July 2009 08:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  54
Joined  2008-11-03

Arrgghh!! I just spent two hours writing up the next installment and it just dissapeared when I went to post it :( must need a browser update or something.

In short form, I’ll write it again later :(

If you tried to follow the Rise mod and attach a front line bridle to the pulley spot then you would loose depower as this attachment is much lower on the ONE. You would probably have no depower at all?

PART 2 - INCREASED TURNING RESPONSE (Short form) Guide - Work in progress (looking for optimum V depth - direct connect possibility)

Your ONE doesn’t need to have the bridles connected. You can remove the H and I lines making the pulley redundant.
Simply make a V using the H line, attaching to the old pulley location and the other to the tip. Place knots starting from the middle of the V back towards the tip. Before attaching to the tip, larks head on either the left over A line or I line to one of the knots on the V (I would suggest starting from just behind the middle), then attach. This way you can keep moving the attached line back a knot until you find the sweet spot (most direct without stalling - You can just about go direct). Why not just go direct? because if you hit some turbulent wind you still have the line attached to the pulley spot that provides stability. You can go direct, but it can drift back on you at times. Make sure your V is deeper than the distance from the tip to the pulley.  Try in comfortable winds for your kite size first. The extra speed generates more grunt as you sweep it through the window.

* Make sure your front and rear bridles are even length - I made the rear bridle from scratch so the H may be too long and might need a knot to shorten (which will mean some left over trailing line, if your happy then you can remove it). Just trying to keep the mods user friendly people wink trying to use as much original equipment as I can. Also, make sure your leading edge is firm.

No more turning lag, Much better feel, Bigger jumps, Better relaunch—- Give it a go. Hopefully all smiles.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 July 2009 02:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  443
Joined  2006-10-24

Wisha

here’s my current idea. Just wondering your thoughts / have you tried it.

My concern is the length of the V to the “F” attachment. Always long (existing and proposed) which has always bugged me a bit due to bridle wraps. The dotted line up the “F” attachment point is the original bridle piece that has been removed.

 Signature 

The only kiter in the Village

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 July 2009 03:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  54
Joined  2008-11-03

Ok, so my currently listed bridle mod is exactly what you have in the second picture (without the dotted line) and some changes to A, C, E, at the top (to make it drop wider and generate more low end). Also, rear V is correct, though I would go a little deeper to give it more range.

I guess you are concerned with the pulley line in my mod wrapping on a rear strut? as it will never hook the wingtip?

I guess this is the current conundrum of range and versatility vs Pulleys and bridles. I see most manufacturers have gone the ‘lets make them really long’ method to get away from the strut ends (ie F-One Bandit Dos, Cabrinha etc). These bridle designs also work well on the ONE by the way (can give you the exact measurement for the 12m if anyone is interested). However, you do have huge V bridles. The Wainmain design is interesting but I’ve never tried it.

As for your proposal, I haven’t tried it. Not sure if it will benefit much, what were you looking at trying to gain from it?

Ideally the F point attachment would be lower on the leading edge (responsible for bar pressure as it is the Front line / Rear line pivot / ratio point). But this would require sewing a new point.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 July 2009 03:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  54
Joined  2008-11-03

Sorry I just realized my mod isn’t the same as the picture as it has a smaller V with a long pigtail to avoid wrapping on the tip. Bigger V is better, but it’s a trade off with annoyance, and I guess safety.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 July 2009 07:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  112
Joined  2006-05-30

OK - I’ve put together a pair of adjustable -New- pulley lines from pieces of line on hand to give Mod 1 a try - is 190 - 220 cm ( end loop to end loop ) long enough ?

For the “small extension”  on H and I, Wisha, you mention 3 cm adjustment increments, but what initial length ?

I wish I had more spare time to tweak and tune.  Will post my results when I get a lighter wind day to try it.

 Signature 

Comox Kite Repair
http://www.comoxkiterepair.ca

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 July 2009 07:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  54
Joined  2008-11-03

i think the total length may be a bit short (I dont have a 9m for reference), but it would go close.
However, the pulley only runs along a very short ammount of line so as long as the pulley line is along the bottom of the V you could easily add any old line to the ends to make it reach just short of the tip.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 July 2009 08:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  443
Joined  2006-10-24

hello Wisha

revised my drawing slightly to make it clearer and follow some of thoughts / comments

In short I’m just trying to simplify and improve on a decent foundation. The 9m had some damn decent performance. Direct steering is nice, without being overly heavy, while keeping the range and getting some nice balance on the kite.

I take your point on the attachment F. The ONE is very flat with very swept wingtips so there’s a balance to be hit there somewhere.

yes I dont like wrapped bridles. The 2006 did not come with the straps to prevent any bridles snagging on te struts. Longer V’s help, not sure why, but It would be good to make it short enough to prevent a snag. A rolling kite is a different matter.

thoughts please

 Signature 

The only kiter in the Village

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 July 2009 07:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  54
Joined  2008-11-03

This setup is pretty much what I’m suggesting to do with parts 1 and 2 of the mod.
From what I’ve read the 9m reviews are quite good so I think if your happy then you could leave the top parts of the bridle as is. My 06 12m had a really bad low end so that’s why I changed the top parts of the bridle.

Just make sure you either make the pulley line quite long to match the rear line length, or add an extension to it (hence why I suggested using the left over F or A line as it was pretty close on the 12m).

Anyways, can’t go wrong with the setup, so give it a go, let us know how is performs on the 9m.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 July 2009 08:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  443
Joined  2006-10-24

Will do. Guess I’ve made the decision to have a go and repair the old lady.

I agree with leaving as much of the original bridle in place as possible. It works so dont break it.

The range on the 9m was excellent, huge overlap with the 12m. About 17 / 18mph to 30+ mph (low 30’s) for me. if I could make it a little better behaved I would be happy. Best sessions and also the biggest spankings this beastie.

I’ll report back when I can but it’s going to take while with the repair and all.

 Signature 

The only kiter in the Village

Profile
 
 
Posted: 22 August 2009 05:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  112
Joined  2006-05-30

OK, so I finally had the time to test my bridle mod 1 on my 12m 2006 ONE - a 220 cm long NEW line made from the available bits of line I currently have.  I’ve had two sessions now with this bridle mod, over a wide variety of windspeeds, from marginally powered right up to way over-powered.

Results :

Reduction in bar loads - HUGE, very obvious, so much lighter on the bar, now very easy to kite with just one hand on the bar

Kite turning speed - marginal improvement, but still pretty slow to turn unless fully sheeted in ( bar at full power / closest postion )

Kite stability - same when sheeted in and better when sheeted out

Kite re-launch - excellent when I put the kite in the water on purpose near the edge of the wind window, kite was stable on it’s wingtip at the edge just like the Rise. Also had a few good crashes on blown jumps with the kite deep in the window, relaunch was faster.  Obviously because my NEW pulley bridle line is on the short side, no problems with strut or windtip snags.

Low end power - better, seems to have a bit more float in the jumps

De-power - not quite as much as the factory bridle, maybe I should have sheeted out a bit more, need a bit more time over-powered with it to say for sure, but the kite is way more stable when sheeted out, I did not get the feeling that the kite was going to front-stall and invert. With the Mod 1 bridle, the One seems to have a bit more of a ‘C’ shape to it than with the factory bridle.

In summary, I’m pleased with the performance improvements and will be stocking up on line to make this mod and try the direct steering on my other Ones.

Thanks, Wisha !

 Signature 

Comox Kite Repair
http://www.comoxkiterepair.ca

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 November 2009 10:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
Newbie
Rank
Total Posts:  1
Joined  2009-11-15

Thanks for posting up the guide. I was curious so i might try this for myself.


Regards,
Tamie
Placement financier

Profile
 
 
   
2 of 3
2